Option 2 for OT rockets #7072
Option 2 for OT rockets #7072
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So this from what I can see makes it worse than a maxcap grenade the m15 grenade variant, better than a m40 grenade variant by 5 units. Rocket power is nerfed by almost 50%, this doesn't seem like a solid change but I guess we'll see if it gets merged. I compared the information from the wiki which is pretty damn outdated considering on the wiki it states max power for OT Rockets being 300 but in the original code it being 240, and with the PR nerf it now stands at 180. |
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This is still a direct upgrade to HE rockets, because of the low thresholds, the stats should be able to be maxed out and it will make up for the lack of telegraphing that other forms of OT have |
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this would mean that M15 grenades are superior, I would even reach with enough effort. M40s can have the same balance power as the " standard " if you want this to be the norm. I would recommend nerfing the incen range of the OT rocket by 2 tiles so it's 1 tile bigger than a WP rocket and that's it for balancing the OT rocket. |
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If the explosive power is increased then no change would have been done at all, these rockets capable of making opening and dealing heavy damage to some t3s and most t2s are mass produce-able and almost infinite depending how patient the medical chemline is, this is NOT weak compared to other rockets available, the grenades have their own flaws to why they are not seen as an issue compared to rockets Rockets have 0 telegraphing, you only find out its OT once you have been hit, thus it is bad design to have it be considerably stronger to be able to singlehandedly kill targets, a reminder that sadar is supposed to stun priority targets for a counter, not kill them outright |
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But OT is supposed to be an upgrade for Sadars and every category. If you are just nerfing OT rockets down so much that it becomes the same result as regular supply. What's the point of upgrading a regular old rocket if the results gonna be the same? there needs to be a limit to making OT Rockets a better version of it, a successor |
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If you think that it is only the fire range then you are unaware of the ability to quite literally 1 shot praes, boilers, all t2s and all t1s with explosive power Also as mentioned prior, sadar is for stunning to open for counter, not killing outright |
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making 2 PRs one "nerfing" by just doing damage changes and the other outright removing a feature that has been on the game for more than 3 YEARS with very little reasoning . ngl this PR looks like just salt |
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Or you could look around what people have to say with OT rockets and their experiences with them, how they are unfun and unfair to fight against, how they can be mass produced before first drop, how there is quite literally 0 counter play because you do not know what they have loaded or whats coming at you right now you either get gibbed by a maxcap, or hit with a lake of fire that is impossible to escape from, this isnt even just t2s, this is everything except rav, crusher and queen If you do not believe this, then feel free to watch this clip https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1266712926140629022/1266714771001053225/CM-SS13_-_USS_Almayer_2024-07-27_03-19-23.mp4?ex=66d44c0f&is=66d2fa8f&hm=d8da20d56543129d40cd4a98dee0c580ea459da68e11de4e8f306a35a1b79091& |
It looks more like you are complaining about the concept of SADAR , OT rockets do have a counterplay , either get away from sadar aim or get closer and let the blast kill him too . Your PR is making it so literally a SADAR rocket does less than a burst of Mk2 or a sniper flak Literally NOTHING. Is "fun" for either team if it KILLS YOU 🗿 |
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Dont fall for the trap of just reducing dmg. Thats the lazy devs balance aproach. Ot SADAR biggest problem is how big the explosion is. Compare the size with all the other SADAR rockets, even SADARs HE is half that size, if not less. If you keep that in mind while rebalancing the rockets it should be fine, and OTs can still make strong rockets. Just that they dont fuck over the hole hive in one go. |
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the stats of the OT rocket now is pretty similar to HE although definitely stronger, it has an increased falloff so it will be confined area rather than a screenwide stun ideally, in simple terms if maxed then it should be a stronger HE without the capabilities of wiping everything nearby |
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current changes makes OT rockets unable to even kill a warrior on direct hit at maxcap |
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That is very much the intended effect, not insta killing everything, you may disagree but as it turns out getting insta killed from a non telegraphed attack is not fun |
No, it doesnt. You changed of the blast only the dmg cap, but thats its. Falloff is unchanged. The only range you changed is of fire, wich isnt the main problem but also a problem in its range. That change is good. Keep capacity, damage and duration from before, but increase falloff. Its supposed to a be a stronger rocket then what SADAR can buy, its made by someone putting in the work for it after all. |
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the falloff is faster because its a lower number, it doesnt need to be changed because its already got less range you are also proposing that on direct hit it do the same damage, which is a gib, which is what im trying to avoid, HE rockets are more than able to make opportunities for killing a possible 13/16 xenos, without strains taken into effect, in the traditional sadar way of having followup, sadar is the 1 OT item with 0 telegraphing and so should under no circumstanced remove someone from the round due to it alone. If you believe that it is not worth making rockets anymore, good on you, you are diversifying the OT items distributed to marines |
I dont think you know how falloff works. The lower the number the larger is the AoE. |
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also if you want ot rockets to stun not kill then reduce metal price alongside the caps |
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man if we are removing OT rockets from this game cause they kill xenos why dont we remove guns and slashing and instead just make everyone roleplay it, *shoots you. smh. |
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This PR has been inactive for long enough to be automatically marked as stale. This means it is at risk of being auto closed in ~ 7 days, please address any outstanding review items and ensure your PR is finished, if these are all true and you are auto-staled anyway, you need to actively ask maintainers if your PR will be merged. Once you have done any of the previous actions then you should request a maintainer remove the stale label on your PR, to reset the stale timer. If you feel no maintainer will respond in that time, you may wish to close this PR youself, while you seek maintainer comment, as you will then be able to reopen the PR yourself |
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As the other PR has been merged i will close this. If you feel OT has been adversly affected, or is still too strong, you can make a new PR in a weeks time. |
# About the pull request Was going to touch up the RPG since the two existing attempts aren't too good (#7070 #7072), but figured I might aswell fix up the rest of it into a less cancerous state, since for some reason no one's done it yet despite years of complaints. Mostly reducing the explosive radius to curb braindead screenwide death, while making the other two underused properties better (fire and shrapnel). Should make the OT less ridiculous to play against and hopefully introduce alternatives to spamming the same full explosive rocket/mortar recipes round after round. Rounded up some numbers cause it bothers me if it doesn't end in a 0, easier to memorize that way too. Played OT in the past, but didn't bother testing the new values so explosive falloff might require further tweaks to either side for desired intent. I'll write down the proper numbers into the CL if this gets accepted, can't be arsed otherwise. # Explain why it's good for the game - RPG: increased falloff, reduced flame radius and explosive power, buffed fire intensity and shrapnel amount. Custom rocket range -1 tile to 7 and raised accuracy to tier 5 Instant screenwide boom/fire bad. Closer to AP but not completely without AoE. - Mortar: Nerfed explosive radius, buffed fire intensity and shrapnel amount Last I checked this wasn't a HE OB shell, should be a little bit saner. - Small grenades: Raised container volume to 120 and slightly metal cost to compensate. Rounded numbers, raised fire intensity and shrapnel a bit. 90 is way too little. - Large grenades: Nerfed explosive radius, buffed fire intensity, fire radius, duration and shard amount Similar to RPG, slightly nerfing the screenwide explosions while making the other properties better - C4: nerfed fire and explosive radius, fire duration, buffed damage to adjacent walls, explosive power, shrapnel amount and doubled fire intensity Felt weird for c4 to have such large AoE, more power in a smaller radius makes more sense. - Claymore: nerfed flame radius and explosive radius, buffed, fire intensity and shard amount Less AoE to make it safer to use. # Testing Photographs and Procedure <details> <summary>Screenshots & Videos</summary> Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the `<details>` tags. </details> # Changelog :cl: balance: OT M40 grenade casing volume from 90 to 120, power 175 to 180, falloff 75 to 80, shards 32 to 40, fire intensity 20 to 25, metal cost from 3750 to 4250 which is 12% of a single metal sheet balance: OT M15 grenade casing power 215 to 220, falloff 90 to 120, shards 32 to 80, fire radius from 5 to 6, fire intensity 20 to 30 and fire duration 24 to 32 balance: OT claymore casing power 105 to 100, falloff 60 to 80, shards 32 to 40, fire radius 5 to 4, fire intensity 12 to 20 balance: OT C4 casing damage multiplier against walls from 1.5 to 2, power 260 to 280, falloff 90 to 120, shards 64 to 100, fire radius 6 to 4, fire intensity 26 to 50, duration 30 to 20 balance: OT rocket casing power 240 to 220, falloff 90 to 160, shards 64 to 80, fire radius 6 to 4, fire intensity 40 to 45 balance: OT mortar casing falloff 90 to 130, shards 128 to 200, fire intensity 40 to 45 balance: Custom rocket accuracy raised from tier 2 to 5 and range lowered from 8 to 7 /:cl: --------- Co-authored-by: Nanu308 <[email protected]>
About the pull request
Reduces overall effectiveness of OT rockets to be more in line with what is already available to the demo spec
Explain why it's good for the game
reasons stated in #7070
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots & Videos
Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the
<details>tags.Changelog
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balance: reduced overall effectiveness of OT rockets to be a minor amount stronger than standard rockets available
balance: reduced metal cost by 3750 for both components of the rocket, now needing 3 metal sheets total to make 1 set
/:cl: